Frequencies No. 1: friendships?!
First of many! Debut issue of Frequencies. It's a long one, so strap in! If you'd rather listen to it, you can download the Substack app on your iPhone or Android and listen through there!
I met Haita back in 2016, and it’s been a never ending conversation since! I am so eternally grateful to have met one of my best friends during our first week in college. We laughed about bubblegum ice cream and now I can’t imagine my life without her! I met Alvin in 2017, but he just existed to me until our Fall semester in 2018. We were on the same Residence Life staff in a building of all men. That year we grew a friendship beyond dealing with drunk students, but an authentic relationship and it evolved from there. It’s hard to believe I went through my first two years of college without being as close to him! It’s because of our relationships to each other that I thought they would be great. We all met at a Cafe in the city. A little noisy, so note to self—for the next edition maybe somewhere quieter.
Without further ado, here’s Frequencies No. 1.
SR: I’m glad you both could sit down with me. This has been a long time coming. I’m excited. The first question is with how long is your longest friendship and with whom?
HN: Okay so, someone who comes to mind is Amie. Our mom’s were friends before we were born. Our families are intertwined—so it feels more like we are family. She is someone who I truly know has my best interest at heart. The other person that comes to mind is Jen because I’ve known her since Kindergarten. She has been both caring and dependable throughout our years of friendship.
SR: I think you did a good job of elaborating on Amie and mentioning how family plays a role! Because I think family friends are huge.
AJ: For me, since Kindergarten, is my friend Marcus and since first grade is my friend Emma. Marcus has been the longest with me and my brother. Since Pre-K. Our families have integrated. His dad was our football coach, once upon a time. And so, maybe we don’t speak as consistently as we did back in the day, it’s just one of those things where the relationship is always there. We always catch up here and there. When I think about it, it’s approaching 20 years—It’s always surreal. I’m always very grateful.
SR: I was expecting you to say Alex. [Alvin’s twin brother]
AJ: That’s a cheap answer. Alex is always going to be my best friend. For me more than anything, he’s my brother. Alex would always be the answer on top of everything.
SR: I wasn’t trying to set you up or anything.
AJ: You were and that’s fine.
SR: In your opinion and experience, what do you think makes a good friend? Some traits, and some qualities you’d find in a good friend?
AJ: Consistency, and the ability to understand who you are. And I think at every stage of our life, we keep on growing there are going to be things we don’t like or like, things that make us tick, things that shut us down and I think someone that’s your friend, and maybe your best friend can kind of pick up on those things, and kind of understand you very well and understand your goals, your ambitions—all these things. Someone you can put your full trust into and probably get all of you outside of a partner. That’s how I see it. That’s how a best friend should be. It’s consistency and the ability to understand you.
HN: Someone you can trust. Someone who encourages you, genuinely. Someone who brings out the better qualities in you. Someone who shows up. Those are traits you can find in a good friend. I hope I’m not jumping the gun because I think a lot of the time people will have someone they click with, have a good bond with, and sometimes people will be quick to call that person their friend, but a friend takes more than that. The reason why I said someone who shows up is because you will have people who show up for a good time, but a true friend shows up in the good seasons and in the bad seasons. I think that’s what makes a good friend rather than an acquaintance or someone you just—y’know laugh with and have a good time with. Nothing wrong with that—but friends meet different needs.
SR: What challenges have you faced in maintaining friendships as an adult? Some of our friendships are based on proximity—so elementary school, middle school, high school. You have friends that you grew up with through school. Some of us went to the public schools in the city. [Not Alvin]. How do you manage to maintain these friendships as an adult?
AJ: For me, it’s more of everyone is changing and I always get agitated when people use the excuse of, I don’t have time. We’re all adults and we’re all trying to figure things out—at the end of the day, I firmly believe you make time for things you want to make time for. Doesn’t have to be every day, but I think that’s one of the challenges with some of the friends. Now I kind of know, it’s not consistent. And that’s how I think about somethings. I always try from my end to be consistent with people. I can have a lot of changes going on in my life but for me, what keeps me, me sane is the one constant of reaching out to my friends. If it’s been a week or so, that’s fine but hey, I’m going to hit you up like, what have you been doing, what’s going on, let’s go out to eat, whatever just to always keep that lifeline going that’s kind of how I picture it and so I guess the challenge is with those on the other side who don’t see it the same way and don’t put the same amount of effort into being consistent and seeing how you’re doing whether you’re there in the good times, the bad times, whatever—those are some of the challenges I’ve faced.
SR: I’m going to ask a follow up—We as young people that are coming out of the pandemic are facing a loneliness epidemic where people do not feel as if there is enough time in the day, or we all have access to each other via social media, literally all the time—do you think this plays a role in what you were saying about people making time?
AJ: Yeah I do. I think, the pandemic played a role, but social media plays a major role. Because you’re friends with someone you sort of see how their life is, you don’t feel the need to check up on someone. The other side of that is sometimes you can feel like you’re falling behind, and feel like I have to get to this point. I have to do this, I have to do that before I can start making time for friends again. So it kind of creates this illusion that everyone has it together, but this person doesn't. So in that same breath people may feel like they can’t talk to anyone in that moment I got to focus on me. Do I see it as a negative, not completely. I don’t agree with how some people go about it, but I can understand.
SR: And I turn to you for the previous question!
HN: I find the proximity aspect interesting. I don’t think that’s a big challenge for me cause I think I have a good understanding of it. Some friendships are there because of proximity, and some are there only for a season and you’ll have good times with them and you’ll learn from them and if you see them again after that season has passed, even if you’re not in close connection with them all the time, it can still be good vibes. Some of the most quality friendships have that element where you can pick up where you left off. There are a few instances where I had to be away from home—grad school being one of them and it was a prolonged amount of time, study abroad was another time but I feel like it takes a text message to reach out to your friends or, a phone call to have a conversation. Now where I do think there are some challenges is where friendships hit adulthood, and people develop different interests or they have different ambitions, and maybe you’ll outgrow each other in those periods, and I think navigating that understanding is more of a challenge than proximity for me.
SR: I find with proximity, people were friends with me out of convenience, or because I was right in front of them. You find that people at our college were friends based on survival—where we needed strength in numbers or a cloak of protection against the powers that were. I think there I could imagine people being in my life forever, and now—shocker, they aren’t. You get what you need from each other, and then you kind of move on with your life. When you get older and you start realizing that, it hurts less. We’re going in different directions. Going along with this, we’re young professionals. With the demands of work and family how do you find time for your friendships? I think as I’ve gotten older my family has taken a higher priority than they might’ve before.
HN: I think as much as I think it’s important to have a friend that shows up I have to show up too. If you have something your celebrating or you’re not having a great day, showing up is something I will always do. It’s one of the ways to be present in someone’s life. In terms of balancing that with work—work ends when they stop paying. So I don’t really find that to be challenge. I think it’s holding the same level of priority I would for other areas in my life. Having good friends and that support system around you makes a person well rounded. Here’s a bit of a twist: I think something that can be challenging is that we’re in an age where something can be exciting and fun for our friends and we want to show up for that but at the same time our parents are aging. We have family reaching different milestones. More of showing up for friends and being there for family is something that presents as more of a challenge as opposed to work cause like I said, work life balance—yeah. Once that day is over, I know how to put a cap on it. But I feel like balancing that with being present for your family’s milestones and spending quality time with your family while you have it is a little bit of a challenge.
AJ: The second part of what Haita said in regards to trying to balance time between friends and family hasn’t been much of a challenge for me. As much as Alex is my best friend, I feel like there has been times I have not been there for him, whether it’s accurate or not I do feel that way. And maybe sometimes, I’m putting too much emphasis on watering and nurturing my friendships. And sometimes, I feel like I’m not fully doing that with my brother. But, in regards to work—the only thing I’ll say is that there are certain occupations that stop you from having the ability to be as consistent as you are. I recently changed my job so I have more time to do that. When there’s extra overtime or added stress from a job, it will put you past the limit where you do not feel like reaching out to your friends or family. But if you’re able to have a job where when you reach 5 PM, and you’re done for the day—like I do now, where it’s easy for me to hit you up, hit Haita up, whoever I need to hit up for a long conversation or a brief one.
SR: I think this next question is more specific to you [Haita], because you did make a big move at a certain point in time. And you were away from your friends and family. How did you begin to build relationships in a new city? I moved to Boston for my graduate program, but I still had connections from college and there were still threads there.
HN: I think one of the more important factors to mention is that I moved there during the pandemic—so that presented a challenge for meeting people. One of the things I would say is to be open minded. I think especially when you’re at this point in your early adulthood, you may have experienced a lot of friendships. You already have some friendships that are more permanent and you might not necessarily view making more friends as a priority. Or you have friendships that didn’t go how you imagined because they felt inauthentic or friendships you’ve outgrown because they no longer align, but you cannot let those past experience dictate how open you are to new friendships. Get to know people—what are your different or shared interests, what are your other commonalities, what value do they add, what value can you add to them, actually being open. You can meet someone cool and “we gotta hang out sometime” each other to death but it won’t turn to a friendship until you’ve invested a certain level of time, vulnerability, and reciprocity. Putting forth that level of investment is what allows it to become a greater friendship. I feel like I am known to practice a certain level of decrement with meeting new people, and I feel like while that is a great thing and a protective thing, it is also important to be mindful of not letting that be a barrier to meeting new people or creating new friendships. So yeah, its all about walking into it with an open mind and navigating a new environment. I think that going to school in a new city also gives you a little bit of a cheat code because there is already a community built around you, so that does make it easier than if you’re not in a school environment, or something like that. Also exploring what connections the city around you has to offer beyond your academic community. That might mean attending different events and stuff like that. Leaving your comfort zone to explore outside on your own. You’d meet some interesting people, so its good to be open to that.
SR: This question isn’t written down but when you do realize a friendship has run it’s course? At what point do you cut people off?
AJ: It’s funny cause I struggle with this. Cause I know the answer is just..I don’t fully pull the trigger. But I think for me, it’s if the values don’t add up anymore. If it’s not align anymore, then you kind of know the answer—whether it’s some of the things you’re doing or maybe some of the things you may or may not believe in. Then you realize the friendship doesn’t have the same feeling anymore. I don’t know how else to put it other than if it doesn’t feel like a friendship and it feels more like a chore, something to just check off just to say you did it. It does not feel like a relationship we’re both enjoying. As I’ve gotten older I had to understand that friendships do end, and it was probably one of the biggest learning lessons for myself. I think that’s the biggest thing for me.
I don’t like friendships ending, but they have to. The main thing is if we’re not as connected or enjoying it as much. It’s where you do not feel like you’re gaining as much as you’re putting in, vice versa—then it’s time to reevaluate it.
HN: Reciprocation is a big thing—I feel like jumping off the point he just made I definitely agree with that. If someone’s not showing up and you have a large amount of consideration for them and you’ll go out of your way to be a good friend to them and they do not have that same level of consideration, it’s like… why are we continuing to invest in that? Conflict doesn’t have to be negative—but say you reach a disagreement—I think how people handle disagreements and conflict is also big to me. If you handle something immaturely, that’s surely one ticket out of my life! I also think it’s so important to celebrate your friends and their milestones. I feel like if somebody you call your friend is not genuinely happy and enthusiastic in supporting or celebrating you, I think that signifies that they are falling short as a friend. If that lack of support is consistent, you have to step back and ask yourself if this is the energy you want to continue to surround yourself with as you reach all your future accomplishments and milestones.
SR: I’m trying to figure out how to word this because this will be a funny question. How would you go about having a conversation with a friend who picked their partner over you if they wanted to come back into your life? I got this from TikTok.
AJ: I think that’s one thing I’m strict on. I’m going to say hate, and hates probably not the right word, but I hate a relationship dictating a friendship—a preexisting friendship. Your partner can’t be the only person in your life. There’s a reason why friends, family and community matters. I don’t believe a relationship is an “either or” thing, it’s an “and”. Something I’m extremely passionate about is your significant other being integrated into your loved ones—it’s not supposed to be your ultimate loved one and then everyone else is secondary to them. I don’t think it works that way. Then if it does, kudos to you, shoutout to you that works for you. I’d like to think that even if she [Joleen, our friend who is also Alvin’s girlfriend of six years] didn’t go to college with so many of our friends it still would’ve worked out the same way. That’s my perspective, maybe it’s the wrong perspective.
HN: I think that’s, a pretty messed up situation. I can’t imagine a scenario where that happens. I think it’s complex and can be nuanced in a sense because if this is my homegirl one thing that will cross my mind is, is she in an abusive situation? I may not take it personal per say, but similar to what Alvin said I feel like, the friendship wouldn’t be the same—but wait here’s a clarification question. How did they say it?
SR: They sat you down like, “F you girl, we can’t be friends anymore.”
HN: Then that’s not a dignified conversation! Tone is a big thing for me!
SR: Then they want to come back into your life.
HN: Yeah, I don’t see that friendship being the same, if it’s not a situation where there was abuse involved. The friendship wouldn’t be the same, but I’m not sure how personal I would take it because it seems like they have internal work to do. They may be in a situation where they have to work on their self esteem or where they think they need that relationship so bad that they let it overshadow their boundaries. They probably have to work to recognize that their relationship may be unhealthy or that they and their partner have not yet built the capacity to work through that. I see it as a them problem and less of a me problem.
AJ: So you’d be open to the friendship again, if after it’s done, they’re like “Haita, I miss you girl, let’s go out for brunch…”
HN: No…I guess I was making it sound “cute”, cause what I really mean by “it won’t be the same”, is just that there wouldn’t be a friendship anymore. This is mind boggling to me because I can’t even see this happening and they’re being hostile. It could at least be a more dignified conversation.
SR: What if it is a more dignified conversation they’re still like we can’t be friends after this?
HN: I don’t consider that dignified! I’m saying they’re not cussing or using hostile language, but someone saying we won’t be friends anymore is kind of telling the other person that your friendship had no value to them. Like, it’s not dignified. I also can’t imagine how this would happen. I think things like this can get more complicated as our lives progress.
SR: We’re nearing the end of our conversation unfortunately! I have two more questions after this one. How do you deal with the feeling of drifting apart from a friend due to changing interests or priorities?
AJ: I don’t think drifting is permanent. I think you have to be willing to acknowledge the fact that you are drifting from one another, and ask what can we do to fix it. I don’t see drifting as a death sentence in any capacity. It’s an eye opener, and I don’t necessarily see it as a bad thing. Every friendship that we have—any relationship period, I always picture watering a garden or a flower. If you don’t water it, it’ll start dying. If you do, it starts to pick itself up again and that should be an enjoyable process between friends. Consistently watering each other, making sure we’re still locked in, whether we talk once a day or once a month. However we do that, we keep watering each other, and understanding each other, our goals, our dislikes and likes. When you both moved for grad school, my personal mission was—Sean you were an hour away, and Haita you were three hours by plane—I wanted to make sure I knew who you guys were. And I think you just have to be willing to put in the work—at this point its with anything. I’d like to think that if I didn’t talk to you guys for those two years you guys were in school, our friendship wouldn’t die, it just wouldn’t be the same. I think it can drift into eternity or you can drift away and find your way back. I think it’s a matter of perspective and how you go about it.
HN: I think he said that perfectly. I don’t really think about it as drifting. I just think life is happening to us all at once. Some of the moments I appreciate most in friendships are when we come together after some time apart and the vibe still there. To me that signifies a quality friendship. Life presents it’s different challenges, it’s ups, and downs, lessons learned, and you guys find your way back to each other and I feel like you both found things that can add more value to each other’s lives. For friendships that don’t come back together, even when you’ve put the effort to water them, I think you have to be able to accept that it doesn’t mean anything bad, or that there’s bad energy between you and that person, it’s just not the same of course. You wish them well, but you might’ve just outgrown each other.
SR: Do you consider yourself a high maintenance friend or a low maintenance friend?
AJ: I know it’s a cop-out, but I’m in the middle.
HN: I was going to say that as well. I’m in the middle, but I find it interesting when I hear this question cause I think everything is so complex.
AJ: I can’t stand this question.
HN: I feel like something else that determines to how well someone can navigate or not navigate adult friendships is how they view, understand, and accept the level of friendships. You have to be able to compartmentalize the idea of friendship. You have your best friends—they walk with you through life’s happiest moments and you also share some of your most vulnerable moments with them. Three o’clock in the morning, you call them with an emergency and they’re coming. You have close friends similarly with best friends they witness some of your happiest moments and they show care and support in some of the tougher ones too, but you may still have deeper levels of vulnerability you haven’t reached with them yet and that’s okay. You have acquaintances who you share nice moments with and are always great to catch up with from time to time. Each group of friends has a unique level of friendship with you. Some people may view everyone at the same level and I think that sets them up for disappointment. You have to be able to recognize which role they play in your life from your perspective and which role you play in theirs from their perspective. Are they the same? There are some people who can’t recognize that and they end up disappointed because they realize they may have either overplayed their role or have overestimated the role someone was ready to play in their life. I think we all have to learn that at some point and I have had to learn that myself. Its possible that you may consider yourself low maintenance in and with acquaintances then when it comes to your closer friends, you might consider yourself higher maintenance. I’d consider myself in the middle. The quality of our friendship means more than how much we talk. I also add longevity to how I view the level of friendship too. They have a saying in Wolof, which means, “if something is not true it doesn’t last” so longevity does hold some weight to me, and I honor it in a sense.
AJ: Haita said a lot that I agree with. Longevity, I kind of wear like a badge of honor, cause it’s hard. It’s really hard to maintain anything for a long time whether it’s your habits, or whether it’s your friendships whatever. It’s hard to keep certain things for a while. I know we mentioned it when we started, your longest friendship but Marcus and Emma— we literally have seen each other grow up. When I think of the two of you, what is it 6 years now?
SR: Seven?
HN: Seven? It’s coming to eight.
AJ: Something like that to me is important. I can’t wait til we get to decade. We’re not going to do anything but it’s like, I’ve been friends with these people since college. When I talk about you two, it’s not like you two are just my college friends—these are still my current day friends. For me, if I have a relationship with you that shows we’re friends. I see friends, close friends, best friends, and then the ultimate thing is family. The friendships that are able to graduate, for lack of a better term, is family. In my mind, something crazy would have to break that up. It’s always interesting how people place certain things and levels. That’s how I chose to go about it.
SR: Well, here we are. Last question…How did you guys become friends?
HN: I met Alvin in April 2017 at our college. I was near the end of my freshman year at the time and Alvin was a soon to be incoming freshman. It was at a a general social event, everyone was wearing name tags that had their hometown on it, and his said [our hometown] and I was happy to meet another person from our city. And since then he’s been a great friend, a brother, someone a part of my network of support back home. I think that Alvin is good at holding community, I think that’s an admirable trait of yours. You have a very positive outlook on building relationships and I think it’s a good thing to have. Personally, growing up, I was taught to manage my expectations of friendships to try and minimize the potential of disappointment. I feel like friends like you and Joleen, and I could go down the whole list of all our friends, restore my view on that and give me more of a positive outlook on what friendships can hold. That’s how I met Alvin.
AJ: So yes, met Haita at our college, I always forget that moment—
HN: Not you always forget?!
AJ: No no. I graduated high school and I didn’t know if she was going to speak to me or remember me all I knew was that she was nice to me during that weekend—but one thing that changed the dynamic and the path for me in college is when Haita told me to join the [Multicultural Mentorship Program]. She herself told me to join this. As social as I am, I felt outcasted—not outcasted, but I could’ve integrated myself better. She told me about it, I joined it and I got comfortable and met people from that program and dictated my college experience. There’s been so many people I met from that program, I’ll always tell Haita thank you. My college experience begins with Haita. Earlier we talked about levels, and I consider her my older sister and I can go to say what’s on my mind, what I’m happy about, sad about, annoyed about. She gives me advice and I listen to a lot of people, but I’m going to hold what she says dearly and I’m going to weigh it a lot more than others cause in my mind, she does no wrong and even though she does, the image I have of Haita she doesn’t do wrong. The way she holds herself and goes about her business is very admirable. She’s always been a shining light and if I’m just around her, close enough, maybe some it could rub off on me. I’m grateful to the point that she has opened herself to me to even consider her my older sister.
HN: Sibling hood! I think the friends you keep around you have a lot of influence on your life and I feel like me having friends that are examples of good friends themselves and hold themselves to a certain standard further inspires me. When I hear my friends like you and Sean and others mention that I’m like a sister to them, it makes me want to be a better person. In a lot of the decisions I make I consider the love and admiration you have all shown me in our friendships. I think of how I want to always try to make the best choices because I have friends who believe in me and have high expectations of me. It’s something that motivates me to continue to do good, or continue to try to choose the best path.
SR: I think so much of our relationships with each other are special. We often reflect each other in specific ways. We talk about each other in a similar fashion and that’s one of the hallmarks of friendship is that keep pushing and reflecting each other. We’re mirrors in a way!
It was wonderful sitting down with Haita and Alvin. While we’re close friends, our relationships differ from one another simply because we’re different people, and it was nice to see Alvin and Haita have conversations about friendships and the role they play to them.
Thank you for reading! This means the world to me — thank you for allowing me the space to experiment and grow!
See you next time!
—S